Daniil Dubov won the 2018 World Rapid Chess Championship against a field that included Magnus Carlsen and Hikaru Nakamura. The Russian prodigy, who became a Grandmaster at 14, has also worked as Carlsen’s second for two World Championship matches. Excerpts from an interview Dubov gave The Hindu at Kolkata, during the Tata Steel Chess India tournament:
You were Magnus Carlsen’s second for two World Championship matches, in 2018 and 2021. How do you look at the upcoming title match between Ding Liren and D. Gukesh?
This will be somewhat a strange experience for me, as I was part of the last three World title matches in different capacities. In 2018 and 2021, I worked as Magnus’ second. And at the last World Championship, I was commentating for the official broadcaster. But this time, I will be following the match from the couch. I want Gukesh and Ding to fight. I don’t want the match to be over with three games to go, or something like that. Yes, I think Gukesh is the favourite, but not to the extent some people seem to believe.
Why do you think Gukesh starts as the favourite? Is it because of his form and Ding’s lack of form?
Gukesh has been the better player over the last two years. Why wouldn’t he over the next two weeks? It has to be said that matches [a series of games] are generally different, and I think, sometimes, even when you are better, there are certain opponents who are probably not as good as you, but they are really tough to crack.
What do you like about Gukesh’s chess?
I like that when he is at his best, he plays only the best moves — just like a chess engine. He plays the way that is sort of difficult to explain. Very often he plays moves that have nothing in common. It is like there is no basic idea behind them, but they are all the best moves still. I mean that is the feeling that you normally get from the engine. Like, one move on that side, then another move on that side. I mean like five random moves, and then suddenly the engine is winning. That is the same with Gukesh.
When Magnus is playing, the move seems more human to me. That is, I can see the idea behind the moves. With Magnus, you always get the logic. Sometimes you guess all his moves, but still you lose. He makes it look simple. Gukesh is exactly the opposite.
We are going through some tipping point in chess history, I feel. If Gukesh becomes the World champion, my mind realises that it is well deserved — he is almost 2800 [in Elo rating] and beating everyone — and still my soul refuses to accept that this little boy is 18. Chess is getting younger.
Garry Kasparov was 22 when he won the World Championship.
Before that, Mikhail Tal was 23. Gukesh perfectly embodies everything that chess is going through.
How do you look back at your time with Carlsen as his second, for his matches against Fabiano Caruana and then Ian Nepomniachtchi?
Magnus had a team of four to five people, and we would basically have to prepare some opening ideas. I was one of the people responsible for making his openings better. I apparently was doing my job well, as I was invited for a second time. I was helping with openings that had been a part of my repertoire for many years, like the Catalan obviously. For the match against Caruana, the Sveshnikov and Rossolimo [variations in Sicilian Defence] were also coming from me. It kind of makes sense. Magnus wants to learn from the people who are doing it for their whole life.
How important do you think the role of the seconds is in a World title match?
I think seconds used to be way more important previously. Now we all have the same engines, and there is basically no room for, say, brain competition, you know. When I worked for Magnus, especially the first term, it used to be completely different. You could analyse a certain position for two weeks, and still you wouldn’t be sure if it is good or bad for you.
A second’s assessment: Dubov says that while Magnus Carlsen’s play can be understood — ‘I can see the idea behind the moves’ — it’s still incredibly difficult to resist. | Photo credit: Getty Images
A few Russian players criticised you for helping Carlsen against Nepomniachtchi, a Russian. And you replied then that working with Carlsen would help you as a player because of which Russian chess could benefit.
Yes and only a couple of players [were critical], really. The rest were supporting me. I was glad to take up the offer from Magnus. There was no downside to it. You basically get paid for working in the best team on Planet Earth with the best player in history. I would be happy doing it for free.
And what did you learn from working with Carlsen?
I have learned a lot, but it is hard to specify, like I learned these five things. It was generally the way he looks at chess, the way he prepares or chooses openings… For the rest of the people, it is probably a bit more mysterious why he is playing this opening against a certain opponent, and then he plays another one against another guy. But I started to get his general take on chess, and the preparation… It is not that I agree on everything.
How did you find playing at the Tata Steel Chess India tournament here in Kolkata, at the Dhono Dhanyo Auditorium, in front of capacity crowds?
It is always pleasant to see so many people in the audience. Sometimes it can cause some lack of comfort for players, but looking at the larger picture, I like it. It inspires me way more than prevents me from making a particular move.
It is not my first time in India, but it is my first time playing in India actually. It is impressive. There is this old saying about the Soviet Union that every random guy plays better than you when you come to the USSR. You can say the same about India now. It feels like everybody plays chess pretty well. Yes, India is like what the USSR used to be, chess-wise, that is.
Are you surprised by the speed with which Indian chess has moved ahead?
Not at all. I remember saying it aloud in Russia five or six years ago that India was going to sort of overtake us, and that their juniors would be better because I know the way they work and what conditions they are given to work. I was saying in Russia we either need to provide the same kind of conditions for our best juniors or we would be overtaken. So there is no surprise for me here. There is, of course, Vishy, first of all. His role has been very, very big.
Are you happy with the way your career has progressed, especially after winning the World Rapid Championship in 2018?
No. It could have been better. But when I was at my best, COVID happened. Then the war happened. I cannot play in events like the Olympiad, but that is fine, I have no worries. If people stop dying, I will be happy.
Published – November 23, 2024 12:28 am IST